Journey Mappers Podcast

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Hi. Welcome to the Journey Mappers Podcast. Today, we have two special guests from Rocket, and they are going to be telling us a little bit about their experience throughout their career, as well as their journey at Rocket and some advice for you as students and recent graduates or even anyone that is interested to know more about the company in general. Please stay tuned. So excited for you to be here. Hi, Reem. Hi, Eric. How are you doing today?

Good. How are you?

Doing good, how are you, Erica?

I'm doing great. My first question for you both is, what's your story, and how did you get to where you are now?

Do you want to go first?

Yeah. My story actually started here at Oakland University. I was a student, just trying to figure it out. I actually was just talking to someone about this like literally 10 minutes ago. But I actually started here at OU. I applied to school as a psychology major. I was like, I'm going to be a psychologist. I'll be a therapist. This is going to go great. I came into school and I was like, change that. Let's go to business. I started in business for a year and a half, loved it. But then all of a sudden, I had this thing where I'm like, I want to help people, and I wanted to become a nurse. I actually took on a job in that field while in school, trying to get ready to become a nurse to go in a nursing school, and over time, I was just like, man, I give these people props, but I don't think I could do this for the rest of my life. It's just an emotional thing. I was like, I got to put myself in a little bit of a happier setting. What did I turn back to? Psychology, which I should have started with the first time. But I found out that psychology has a business side. You don't have to be a therapist. You don't have to go into criminal justice. You can do a lot of things with it. That's where the HR side came in. I was sitting in the OC, which is the Oakland Center, and I saw on Handshake and I'm like Rocket is here today, and they're doing resume reviews. Why don't I just go? It's during lunchtime. I'm free. I went. I made a connection with one of the recruiters there at the time, and then fast forward, like a few months later, I had somebody that actually worked at Rocket. I saw an internship and I was like, hey, can you refer me into this role? A little after that, I got an interview, and then I got into the last and final interview which is like a video chat because it was remote at the time. It's COVID. It was tough. COVID was tough. I'm sure a lot of people can relate. Got into video chat, and the guy that I saw at the resume review that one time was in the interview, interviewing me, and I was like, my goodness, I know you. It was just a fun full cycle thing, and I think that's probably part of why the reason I got the job. But that's how I started here, moving from Oakland to going in to Rocket, and I started as an intern, moved my way up, and now I'm a senior sales recruiter. It's been pretty awesome. Five years later.

That's awesome. Well, Eric, could you share your story as well?

Absolutely. A little bit different. Unfortunately, I'm not OU grad. I went to Bowling Green State University, I was a student athlete, and I was telling the same story as well out there earlier. I met someone at a sporting event. Student athlete, I was going to support my partner at the time, and hit it off with a guy and he's like, hey, I'm going to come back and interview you tomorrow. I'm like, okay. I don't know what I was thinking. I show up. I'm dressed. I had my resume. He showed up, and then it got real. He was suited and booted, ready to go. We talked about my experience. As soon as we were done, he was like, hey, I want you to come shadow in Dearborn Michigan, and I'm like, alright. I went up and shadowed in Dearborn, Michigan and landed at an opportunity with this organization, and I was there for about 6.5 years, and just like in the movies on a Friday, they came in and they were like, you 30 individuals, we're going to move you to our Auburn Hills location, very close to where we are right now. At that point, I was living in Jackson, Michigan, and I was like, I can't make that commute one way. I can't. It's too far. It's like two hours and a half. Took a buy out, went home, and in that drive that I had going home that day, I will never forget I was like, what am I going to tell my partner? What am I going to tell her? I don't have a job. At the end of the month, I reached out to some individuals that I knew who worked for this organization called Rock Financial, and they're like, hey, we're looking for somebody to come in and HR. Now, my background, education, all those type of things, my major was communications, and I had a minor in business, that marketing aspect, supply and demand part of marketing. I'm like, sure, what do you want me to do? They're like, we're looking for a sales recruiter. I'm like, I can do that. Easy. I've done it. I've ran accounts. I've done different things, and you fast forward 18 years later, I'm still here. I'm in a senior talent relationship role where my responsibility is going to make connections with individuals. It wasn't something that I learned in school. It was just through interaction and networking and building relationships with people, and 18 years later, I'm still here.

I love that. That actually brings me to my second question. I know you both talked about your journey. It wasn't just something that was just like, happened the day after when you were looking for it. Could you talk a little bit about how that curiosity that you had while you were in school or even shortly after school, how that led you to figuring out, that this is where I want to be. I know you talked a little bit about, you enjoy helping people. Could you tie that into what that has to do with your job now as a recruiter and what that has to do with your job now on University relationship manager.

It's talent relationship.

Talent relationship manager.

Relationship managers.

Could you talk a little bit about that? How that ties in.

You can jump first in.

As far as what I do right now looking back at were the skill sets there? I think the skill sets were, I'm going to school for communications. I have no clue where that's going to land me an opportunity, and then I meet someone, I find this home, and then everything flips, I'm like, what am I going to do? Do I recreate myself? No, I have these transferable skills. I know how to talk to people. I'm not afraid. When I was in college, I was captain of our football team. It was like, I was in these conversations maybe that lead me to where I'm now. It's energy. It's talking and branding our organization. It's building relationships, it's telling people where they can go and what the future may hold for them, even though they may not see it themselves. I just relay the message almost in the sense like, it's myself again. I had no clue, and then I landed an HR and I'm like, all these people got HR degrees. I don't have an HR degree. I'm out here just building relationships with people and trying to understand what they're looking for and putting them in the right situation. Next thing you know, the organization that we worked for was like, that's perfect. That's what we need you to do. Our organization is a huge advocate for what your strengths are. We're going to work on the weaknesses as we go, but we're going to lean on your strengths. That's the situation I'm in right now being where I'm at and being with the organization as long as I have.

I'll say for myself, I actually didn't know I wanted recruiting in specific. It was something where the person who referred me in, which he's now our VP, which is awesome. It's amazing. He definitely moved a lot since I've been here and where we're at right now. But when I was chatting a little bit about what I wanted or where I wanted to see myself, I said business psychology, and a lot of people don't really know what business psychologists do all day. Maybe you're working on the industrial side, maybe you're working on the organizational side. Maybe you're doing engagement surveys. Maybe you're in recruitment. You're in a lot of different places. I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know and I didn't know. I applied to, I forgot, it was a marketing something type of internship. I didn't even know what I was doing. I just applied, and I'm like, man, why did I get rejected? What happened? Then I chatted with my referral, and I was like, hey, I don't know why I got rejected. He's like, why don't you apply to the recruiting internship? I was like, I never thought of recruiting. He's like, well, you've had some sales experience in the past. You are part of an organization here at Oakland University, and you recruited people, too. Why don't you try it out? You never know. I didn't know my skills were transferable, and also the fact that I love to talk. I'm sure a lot of people in my life know that. I love to talk, and hence that's why I'm a recruiter today. I definitely think it transfers into my job. But it's been an amazing journey just trying to figure out who I am. Where do I fit into this world called life and just figuring out where I am at this company and just in my career. Where do I go? Recruiting has definitely been rewarding. I get that caring about people because when I hear people on the other end of the phone, and I say, you got the job, and you hear someone crying, like, thank you so much. I'm so happy. I'm going to go tell my wife or just little things like that, or I'm so happy this is my first real corporate job. It makes me happy that I was able to change somebody and change their life for the better. I'll even share with you guys. I had a banker. He started last year, maybe last June, July, something like that. He started with us, and he was like, I hope I get promoted. I really see myself with this company, and I hope I can grow here. I'm like, that's what Rocket's about. It's about growing, finding those opportunities. Fast forward, now we're in June. We're almost getting in July. He started as an intro banker. He is now a senior banker on track for promotion to go to the next level. It's one year later, and he's killing it. I think that's a big part of, I love where I'm at because I see opportunities for other people, and that's what I want to do with my life. Even if you look back into our banking space, what are we trying to accomplish? Help everyone home, and so everybody plays a part in that, whether you're in a banker, you're in HR, you're in legal, everyone plays a part in helping everyone home. I think that's such a great place to be, move yourself, grow yourself, but be a part of a great mission.

I love that. I love that you both touched on the fact that you didn't have it figured out, and you take joy and pride in being able to help other people figure it out along the way. Same for you, just being able to see them grow, and so I just feel like that is such a beautiful thing. We get to see that side with the students as well. We get to see them grow and figure it out along the way, too. That actually ties into my question about Rocket in the city of Detroit. I know that you take so much pride in seeing the individuals that you work with and the candidates that you work with grow in their careers. Could you talk a little bit about the impact that Detroit is making and how that's impacting the lives all around the city and cities surrounding it or even the people that are in those jobs as well?

I think I have a little bit of a different experience and then coming into Rocket. My parents were entrepreneurs, and they built their business in the city of Detroit. I, as a child, have been able to, although I didn't live in Detroit, I've been able to see the differences economically. It's looked at as far as where it started. I'm 27 now, 27 years ago versus now working in the city of Detroit, seeing all the wonderful things that we're doing, and Dan Gilbert, we'll talk about him. He's just built so many different types of businesses, so many different opportunities for other people to even start their business with people that are coming into that area. It's been an amazing journey, I will say, to see how Detroit's evolved. You probably see it in sports. The Lions. [LAUGHTER] Then go all the other sports, too.

I was like don't forget about everybody else.

I can't forget about everybody else, but Lions at my heart. I'm a football girl. I really love to see how we're growing as a company, and you can even see in size, how big Rocket has grown from where we started to now being in Detroit, how big of an organization we are and how crazy it is just, like, time flies and look where we're at now. I think it's been amazing to see the economic growth, the opportunities that we created for the city of Detroit. It's been great.

I think, just to tie off of what Reem was saying, I was a part of the initial move to the city of Detroit. We went to suburbs of Livonia, and Dan Gilbert put together a large meeting at that point in the space we were in and said, hey, we're moving to the city of Detroit. I think people were like, why? Why are we going to the city of Detroit? But he already had this vision and this idea of being a homegrown individual, being from around the city of Detroit, going to school at MSU, and then wanting to give back to his city. I think he was like, I'm in a situation where I can do that. We move to the city of Detroit. We go down, we look, we see our space, and everybody's just looking around and then you start to experience the joy, the smiles, the knowing that, without the city of Detroit, does the state of Michigan, does it succeed? You start to see these vision things come into play, and I will say, when you go to a city and you see construction happening, buildings going up, that means that things are happening well. We just finished the Hudson project downtown. Largest building in the state of Michigan.

I believe so.

Then you see where they have a hole in the ground where they're building a restaurant and some other cool stuff downtown, and it's like, well, this is now a destination, and I think that is ideally one of the goals outside of with the sports teams, because that was on his vision board that he showed everyone to, as well, a vision presentation he showed. But you start to see Detroit being this place where people want to come, spend time, don't necessarily have to come and spend money. We love for you to. Some of those businesses that are down there, we would love you to do that. But you can just come down and just hang out. There's movies in the park. There's drive in that they have. In the summertime, they bring in sand. It's all these cool, family-oriented type things. Growing up, that's not the vision of Detroit that I saw. We have a picture on one of our floors of the city of Detroit, and people are dressed up. There's rail cars. Everybody is hustling and bustling, but everybody looks so professional and happy to be there. I asked my grandfather, growing up in Ohio, I said, where'd you go for fun? He said, your grandmother and I would get dressed up, and we would go spend the weekend in the city of Detroit. I said, Grandpa, stop. No, you didn't? This is before I had a chance to experience it. Now, being there and seeing the growth and seeing that it's a destination where I don't know if you can get a lease in the city of Detroit right now. I think there are full occupancy across the board.

Living there for a year, being involved in different cultures, being involved in the parades, being involved in just, hey, let's just go to see what the city's got going on tonight. And thinking, like, I'm just going to go hang out, and then next 2:00, 3:00 in the morning, and you really didn't do anything but just hang out, talk to people, get to know other individuals. That's the vision. And I think Rocket being downtown, that's been a very important piece as far as being able to showcase the city as this jewel that it is to the rest of the country.

It's really beautiful to see also other companies thriving in the area because of the impact that Rocket has made, and I feel like that is the local companies.

It's just really exciting to see. Same to you, my grandparents, I know back then, for them, Detroit was a spot that they could go to. And so it's just really exciting to see that be brought back to life. Hopefully, our grandkids could be able to experience that one day/So just super exciting.

For Sure.

So the ISMs.

What are those, again?

I know that's often a topic of discussion. I always joke with students that I remember when I was in college myself, many moons ago. But I remember when I was in college, I remember Rocket came to visit and speak to us. The first thing that they brought was the ESM book, and they were just like, this is a huge part of who we are. I just remember the book was super colorful, super vibrant. I'm like, these ISMs. But I just find it so fascinating that it's just a huge part of who the company is, and it's not just here's our mission, and you won't never see it again. But it's who they are, it's who the company is and what the people in the company represent. I think that is so exciting that it's not here's our mission, here's our value, but we live by this.

That's correct.

Speaking on the ISMs, I know my favorite ESM is do the right thing, and that's just something that I personally live my life on. It's just doing the right thing and making sure that I'm helping other people and just making sure I'm doing things in an orderly fashion as well, so that nobody else has to face impacts that they don't need to face. So could you tell me what is your favorite ESM that you've just loved throughout your journey at Rocket?

I'll go first. There's a couple. I think they all resonate with you as an individual or just you and your personal journey, depending on what you see yourself and your vision and your why. But for us, it's our special sauce. It's what differentiates us from any other organization that's out there that might be in financial services. I know Reem mentioned helping everyone home. That's the driver. But home could be this moving target for you as an individual when you think about. Our culture is so tied into these ISMs or these simple statements. Yours is I think you said, do the right thing. Mine is we'll figure it out. That's the world I live in, and I think that's helped relax me in my time that I've been here with the organization because it lets me know I don't have to have all the answers. I'm going to figure it out as I go. I'm going to learn from individuals. Individuals are going to learn from me, and it's going to help me go into each and every day knowing I don't have to have the answers for the entire day. I'm just going to let things happen as they go. Then when things go bad, no one's going to know because it's just a blip. I'm going to totally go around it and fix and still achieve the goal that I'm set out to go. So that one for me is everything. We'll figure it out. I live it every day.

Actually, I like that you brought up this question. I'm going to call out one of my team members, Steven, if you're watching this. You know what I'm talking about? Steven loves the ISMs. He talks about them every day. But our team is so integrated, and it's not just our team. Like I said, me and Eric, we're on different teams in the same area, but everyone is always just talking about the ISMs. It's how we are passionate about what we do every day. It's our moral set. It's how we problem solve and how we have a solution focused mindset. Actually, my favorite one, it used to be called take the roast out of the oven. We have some funny ways that we say things, but Rocket is just different. We just like to be our own person. But it used to be called Take the Roast out of the oven, which is now rebranded to lunch and learn. I love lunch and learn, and I'll tell you a funny story. When I first started at Rocket. Now, I'm calling you out. I'm calling everyone out. When I first started at Rocket, it was me and another one of our team members, Jasmine. We started on the first day, and we were so quiet in our first meeting. We're like, we're not talking. We're not going to say anything, but me and Jasmine are messaging, like, hey, I have an idea. We should definitely do this. We should definitely do that for this team. We never said our ideas. Eric's like, why don't you guys talk in meetings. We're like, Oh, we're just interns. I was, no. Next meeting, I'm calling you guys out. That's why I call him out now. But he's like, next meeting, I'm calling you guys out. Say your ideas. Speak your mind. You have a voice here, and maybe your idea is going to change something or maybe your idea is going to make something a little bit better. That goes into we'll figure it out and doing all of those things. So next meeting, me and Jasmine pop in and we're like, Oh, we got a question. We got an idea, and it was awesome. That's what I've been doing ever since. That's what got me to moving from an internship to my full-time job to the next team and just growing ideas now, I'm like, wow, when I think back five years ago when I first started, I don't think I could believe what I did now and all that I've achieved. But it came from that ESM of launch and learn or the previous ESM of Take the Roast out of the Oven.

I love that. I feel that correlates back to just being curious and taking that risk. Like you said, we'll figure it out or just take the roast out the oven. I think that is so connected in a way of saying nobody is born with it all figured out. Nobody is born just doing the same thing over and over again and just right away just knowing that this is it. I think that it most definitely ties in with that curiosity aspect of it. That's something that we're always trying to share with students and even ourselves, as well. It is okay to not have it all figured out. It is okay to try new things. Is it okay to see new visions or how we could go about certain things. I love that you talked about that.

Almost keep thinking outside the box. The ISMs help us think outside the box. The reason why I called her and this other young lady out they're interns. I had been in my role probably 14 years then at that point. I walk past all kinds of stuff and I'm just like, this is what I do. I'm going to sit down and do my job. But if a person that at that point was an intern says something, I'm like, Oh, that's more efficient. I'm going to learn more from her than probably what she's going to learn from me. So it was like, I know you guys have ideas. I see you over there messaging. Speak up, and I think our ISMs give you that opportunity to own your dream, whatever that dream is, the curiosity, which then leads you to, home ownership and helping everyone home as our mission statement is. But without the ISMs, we're just another organization that people can flip, go to the next page.

That's why we follow them every person. We even have ISMs Day, we talked about. We all go to it. We fly people out. I know we've focused on Detroit in specific, but we have a Cleveland, Ohio location. Shout out to the and Phoenix, the sun, the desert. Those types of people from all different organizations come into Detroit. We fly them in. We have them for a day and just talking about the why. A company can have morals, but it's why should we follow these? Why are they here? Why are they in place? You see people in the organization talk about here's the why, here's Dan Gilbert's vision, here's our vision. Here's where we're at in an organization. Here's how you can succeed. We give you the tools, it's your turn to take the tool and use it, and that comes from the ISMs.

So the thing that I find most interesting. I know when I first toured Rocket's campus was I seen it all over the wall. Well, they actually like.

They believe it.

Not only do they tell you that these are ISMs, but they are living by it. They believe it, and they want you to remember it, and they want you to live by it, too. I thought that was so fascinating, and it just made me fall in love with Rocket as a company so much more.

ISMs get me excited. I got one more example. Because it really is the thing that really separates us. So Dan Gilbert owns a lot of different organizations. So one of those organizations that Dan owns is the Cleveland Cavaliers. I will never forget Lebron James doing an interview. He had left Cleveland, he was playing in LA. He was getting interviewed at his locker. They had just lost, so I was watching on Sports Center, and he dropped three ISMs. I'm like, there's no way. So I rewound it. Wait, hold on. He talked about doing the right thing. The numbers that you were asking about he goes, I don't follow those. Those things just come based off of me doing these other things and making sure my teammates are good. That's another ESM. I was like, this is wild because not only are we doing it from a business perspective, the financial services element, but now it trickles down to a person who doesn't even work for the organization anymore or tied to the organization, total different organization, and he still carries those same thoughts, like daily motivators, all those type of things, and those come from the ISMs, which is wild in the culture.

It's ingrained in the culture, and I feel that's very rare to see.

It is.

Forget it.

So could you talk a little bit about professional development? I know you yourself, you've experienced, like, going from an intern all the way to now you're a senior recruiter, or senior talent acquisition partner. I know over your time of being there 18 years, you've seen a lot of transition that you've got to develop yourself in. Could you both talk about what that may look like for somebody that is probably a recent graduate or even just an intern that is what is the direction I should go, or how do I really develop myself? So what are some of the opportunities that Rocket offers, programs, things of that nature?

Well, I start with this one, if I can. This is my motto. For every person, whether you're calling a Rocket, anywhere you go, you're coming into an internship, you're coming into a company. You're starting a job. The words are, be curious. Why? Because if you don't understand the way that things are working, you don't understand the process, maybe, again, going back to having an idea and not telling anyone. You're never going to progress. You're never going to grow. I've been blessed to have a lot of great leaders and not only just leaders and directors, but team members and moving up a vice presidents, people that have been surrounded by sometimes people are like, I have no idea who my vice president is. I don't even know who the CEO is. Mind you, I can get into an elevator, I'll walk across, and I'm like, Oh, there's our CEO. It's right there and say hello, Talk to anybody in the company. You can say hello, and no one's going to be don't talk to me. Everyone's like, hey, what's up? It's a welcoming area to, again, be yourself and also stir up a conversation about your growth. With the growth opportunities that we have, I've had my leaders, again, going back to them, we do performance reviews. When we get into these performance reviews, it's like, all right, not only how are you doing now, the last question is, where do you want to grow? What do you want to do? Is this Is your end all be all? We won't be mad if it's not. You have a lot of skills, and we don't want to tie you down to one role for the next, I don't know, 50 years if this is not where you want to be. If you're like, hey, I'm doing so great as a recruiter, but I love tech, and I actually have these skills. Well, let's prepare you. So when that role opens up, you can apply to that role. We can get you there. I love that about Rocket because I've never felt I was stuck. I've always felt hey, there's an opportunity to grow. I think a few months back or going back seven or eight months ago, that we even had people wanted to get in project management. We had a Google certification, just come out and whoever wants to join this, get in that program. It's free, paying for it. It's amazing. I want to go back to bankers, too. You can't go to school and be like, I'm going to get a Bachelor's degree in mortgage banking where you're like I'm ready to be a mortgage banker. In mortgage banking and actually not even just mortgage banking, sales. How does sales work? I can't just study sales. I can study a little bit but it comes from practice. It comes from experience. It comes from getting out there and doing the thing. So we have our own training program that we set up. We pay for your licensing. We pay for your education. We have trainers that are there every day. We give you the resources that you need. Not only the resources you just study, but even the outside things, like, your pay. Your health insurance, your benefits. We even have a pharmacy where you can get everything at a wholesale price. We make sure we're taking care of you so that in the end, we take care of each other. We take care of you and you get your job done, and we can get that into a place where you can grow, and then it goes back into promoting yourself. Maybe you want to see yourself in leadership, maybe you want to see yourself in a different area. The growth is crazy, and Rocket provides that for every team member every time. We have a ESM of every client every time, but on the other end, it's every team member every time. We're going to make sure we're taking care of you if you want to get there. Something I think Bill said, Bill Emerson, he said, I can't motivate you. I can only inspire you to get to where you want to be. Motivation comes within yourself. So again, you can take the horse to the water, but you can't make him drink the water. It's the same process. You want to do great, you'll get there if you ask those questions, if you be curious, if you get yourself to where you want to be because we provide everything for you. It's just you.

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I love how you mentioned the isms every client, every time, every team member every time, in the words, of your personal experience, being an internal team member. I'm just wondering, is that possibly why Rocket is so successful now because they really do take the best care of their team members and their employees.

Absolutely.

I just feel like that is a really good connection every team member, every time, every client every time because they're really taking care of you guys.

I don't think anybody wants to work somewhere where you don't feel like you're taking care of it. Given we spend a lot of time at work. Everyone spends a lot of time at work.

That's correct.

This becomes your family. Your family is there to motivate you, which team members. You see first day, Eric was like, "Get on it. Ask questions."

Accountability.

Hold me accountable. I'm telling you right now, maybe if it wasn't him, it would have been somebody else. But he showed up on that first day and said, "Ask those questions." If you didn't do that, I would have never asked. I would have never felt like I had the room to do it if no one told me, you can do this. I think that we inspire each other all day every day, and you want to be a part of a company that can do that for you. You don't want to be part of a company where you feel like you're stuck, no one's motivating you. Nobody wants to be there. You want to wake up every day and say, I'm excited to go to work because my family's there. My friends are there. I'm going to have lunch with them today. We're going to have a great time at work. That's, I think, what wakes us up every day. I call him E. J. It's Eric, but he has a long drive into coming to work every day, but he does it, and I think maybe he can tell you why.

Yeah. I live in Ohio. My commute one way is an 1 and 15 minutes. Thinking about it, I'm like, that's daunting. It's really not that bad. It really isn't from the standpoint of, to what Reem was saying, I'm going to see my friends. I'm going to hopefully give back to someone else, open a door, point them in the right direction. I think once you're in our organization, we do a fantastic job where the learning never stops. We don't really give you a choice. Do you want to learn this? No, you're going to learn. That's part of our DNA. We have internal teams. One of them is called the Journey. You can go on any book that you would see at the library, professional development book. It's there. You can rent it for free. There's classes. There's certificates. There's tuition reimbursement. There's everything to help you improve and get the best version of you, so then you can help a client get the best version of themselves. It's this continuous circle of you give and then someone else gets, and then someone else gives you, and then you give. What's like paying it forward. You think about the growth and what Reem was talking about, we're never gonna force you. We're just going to tell you we have the resource. You have to be the person that says, I want to be curious and motivate myself to go, what are they doing over there? That looks challenging. Is that something that I can use to help my business here or help my business partners? If it is, then it's full, open door, and those resources are there for you. It's going to be the best resources, too, as well. Very, very easy to accomplish. But you just got to have that drive, that drive and that go get it.

Which ties me to my next question [LAUGHTER]. I love when that happens. But you talked a little bit about just having that drive. Being curious. Could you talk a little bit about what are some of the mindsets or even just qualities or characteristics that you see with candidates that are hired in rather they're later stage of their career or early stage of their career. What are some of those characteristics that you see that help somebody thrive at Rocket?

I'm going to start because mine's going to be short, and I'm going to hand it over to you. You get a chance to talk to a lot more candidates on the daily for specific roles.

Got it.

One of the things that I look for when I meet someone, if they hand me a resume, I'll take the resume and flip it over. I think that freaks people out. We were just talking to, I think her name was Lacey about that. I want to know what you want to do. I don't care what the piece of paper says. Let's figure out what you want to do and find out what your mission is, and then we can accomplish that mission. It's one understanding your why as an individual and what that means. Why is it that I take the classes that I take? Why is it that I chose the major that I chose? Don't walk around with your binoculars so tight that you don't see what else is going on. I think that's one of the biggest things. Understanding that you have these transferable skills, and you have this knowledge that can help you succeed, no matter what you're doing. It starts with you. We're not going to wake you up. Just like you're not woken up now to go to class and to do the responsibilities that you have to do, there's a certain thing inside of you that says, I got to go get this done because it's the right thing. Coming into our organization, we're going to give you the keys to the car and let you drive it the way that you want to. We're gonna have parameters, but you have to have that mission of yourself and that why. Understanding your why is first. Two is, you understand your why. Now what do I? Be curious to Reem's point earlier. Go out and find people that are in the industry that maybe you want to be involved in. You have to get out of your own way, I think, sometimes. People make things maybe a little harder than what they need to be. Getting out of your own way, having a why, and just being like, what do I have to lose? You have nothing to lose. Worst case scenario is someone says, I can't help you, but I guarantee you if you ask someone for assistance, they're going to help guide you in some way shape, or form that's going to get you closer to your why and to your goal. You take it run.

Also, spinning off of what he said is, like, it starts with you. When it starts with you, I'm going to say my own experience from Oakland University. Now, you could have went to any college when you're applying to this role, but just because of, I went to OU, I'm a Grizzzly alumni. I'm going to speak about OU, and OU is in Oakland University. When I went to school, I had a lot of resources as far as handshake, using that as a platform to look at jobs, look at job descriptions. What are people looking for? That this was my freshman year. I'm not going to apply to these full time jobs yet. I don't have time, but I want to know what are they looking for. I can prep myself and then see, what does my college offer for me? My college offered me organizations that I could be a part of. It offered me jobs on campus that I could be a part of. I took the advantage of, first I think it was the first week of college is my freshman year. I was like, "I'm ready to shine." I love to talk. So why not? Go at it. I went to Grizz Fest. I don't know if it's still called that, but I went to Grizz Fest, and it's just a bunch of different student organizations ready to recruit you. I'm like, well, I want to be a part of something. I don't have friends here yet. I don't know everybody. I'm not going to just be alone for the next four years. I want to know some people, and people that relate back to me. I joined an organization. I started as a team member in that organization. I freshman year graduated being president of that organization, and that organization got me my internship. Just using the resources that your school gives you, and maybe you're like, "Hey, I'm not in school. I had to figure it out. I wasn't able to go that route." It's the experiences that you take. Also, are you doing research on this company? Are you just getting on the phone saying, I need a job? Or are you getting on the phone and saying, "Hi, my name is John Doe. I want to tell you why I want to come to Rocket. I've researched why you guys do this, this, and this, and I love this about your company. Here's what I bring to the table. I want to learn more about you guys." Right away, I'm like, "Man, you're selling me on this call."

Hey, Reem, listen, I'm not looking for a job. I'm looking for a career.

I'm looking for a career.

Looking for a career and there's a difference.

There's a difference. I'm not just looking for a job that I want to work for you know, six months a year. I'm looking for a career that's going to take me somewhere that's going to do something for my life and for the next chapter for me. You never know what's going to happen and how you're going to grow, how you're going to find your opportunities again, going back to maybe I want to be in this position today. Maybe 10 years from now, I'm doing something else, but I'm doing it within Rocket. I want to find a family that believes in me. That's what I found, and I believe Eric found Rocket. He's been here for about 18 years. I hope he did. It's just believing in yourself, being curious and doing the research on the company that you're applying to, doing research on where do you want to go? Because in the interviews, sometimes I ask, "Hey, what do you want to do in the next 2-3 years?" People are like, "Well, I haven't thought about that question." I'm like, Huh? You should. We're on this call." You're making a phone call that's going to do something for your life and for the next chapter. Why don't we figure out where you want to be, so I can get you there as a recruiter? Because I'm not trying to sell you on the job. I'm trying to find you the right fit.

That's a keyword. I'm not trying to sell you on the job. I'm trying to put you in a situation that you said you want to be in. And once you're in that situation, run. Go. That's awesome.

I'm trying to help you figure out. Love that. My last question then is, what is the last piece of encouragement or advice that you would give to a recent graduate or a student that is on this journey or pathway of trying to figure out their career? Or even if they're interested specifically in Rocket, what advice would you give to them on trying to figure out how to navigate their journey?

I have a psychology background, so I'm going to take this into a little bit of a psychology focus and then change it. Some people are introverted. Some people are extroverted. You can get on a phone call with them, and they're like, "Hi, my name is this, and this is what I want to do." Sometimes people are like, "Oh, my goodness, I'm so nervous. I'm talking to another person that I don't know. It's not my friend. I can't be myself." You go through these different steps of, how do I show the other person on the phone what I got. Maybe I'm introverted, but I got what it takes to do this job. At Oakland University, you have the Career and Life Design Center. They can help you. They do imitation, interviews, or go through resume reviews and just help you navigate your life. Maybe you have a friend who you can maybe chat and say, "Hey, can I run this by you? How does it sound?" If I was getting on an interview with you, how would you like to do? Did I sell you on this? Or did I tell you everything that I needed to tell you? Just practice. I think when I was practicing for my internship, I was like, "Mom, I know you've never worked a day in your life, but hold on. Let me just tell you something real quick. Just tell me how do I sound? Do I sound funny?" She's just sitting there, "You're doing great." Even though she's my mom. She's can tell me I'm doing great all the time. I need that feedback. I need somebody to listen so I can hear it out loud. Practice. Be curious. Again, just be yourself. At Rocket, in that uniform where you have to be a certain way. We want to hear your voice. We want to build a relationship with you because that's what our cultures all about. When you do the research on the isms, you're going to see a little bit more about who we are and what we do. But just any company, just research what they're all about so that you're able to bring that shine that in the interview. Maybe even tailor your resume to fit that, to make it make sense, so that we can see that we can pick that out when we're looking at resumes and going through the process. Again, connections, he talked about network. He didn't know he wanted a job at Rocket. But he met somebody, connected and said, "Hey, I want to interview you. Like, "Cool." He didn't know that person was going to be the next door to his next 18 years, but it did. Look where he's at. He's successful. Even me, I didn't know just going during lunchtime because I wanted to just have somebody look at my resume and I was like, "Rocket's here." I had no idea that person was going to pop in my interview, and that was going to be part of the reason I get that job. Just build yourself. Just grow your network. Be curious. Learn and just be yourself and do the research. I want to add something, too. If you're somebody that maybe you didn't just apply, you're coming to a career fair and just learn about the company, and I'm sure Eric sees this a lot where somebody just again, like he said, sometimes people just hand me a resume right away. Just here at my face. Here you go. Right when they're next in line when they're at a career fair. It's like, "Well, I'm just going to put this down. Now, talk to me" It's such an important part of, you can't just come in someone's face, "Here's my resume." You want to be able to say, "Hi, how are you? I just saw your booth. I just want to stop by, see what it's about, maybe talk about something," just like, "I like the shirts." These are really cool or something you saw and then start that conversation. If I approached, I'm going to take it back to dating. If I was meeting someone and I'm like, I like that guy or that guy likes me. He's not going to come up to me and say, "Hey, my name's John. Here's my resume. Here you go." He's going to say, "Hi. My name's John. I saw you over there." You're just really building that relationship. I think every person, every person, brings something special to the table. All your skill sets. Whatever you do in this lifetime, everyone has something special about them. But I don't know that yet. Have you have to show me. You have to engage me. I have to see. Again, people will just pass you by, and you're just like, "Man, that person, got to talk to that recruiter," or. No, everyone has the same 24 hours. Maybe you don't have all the same resources, the same opportunities, but you have the same 24 hours as everybody else to get things done, and it's up to you to use the resources that you have in front of you and say, How far can this get me? Or how far do I want it to take?

Perfect. Well, you guys heard it here. Also, don't forget to stop by Career Life Design Center if you have any questions or even want to do any mock interviews, resume reviews, or anything like that, or any advice in general when it comes to applying to any positions as far as Rocket or any other companies. But we are so thankful for you guys tuning in and thankful for you guys being here. Have a great day, everyone.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us [MUSIC].